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Dylann Roof’s Reaction to the Two Minutes of Hate

So, this whole Confederate flag issue is still out there, percolating.   It is the most recent example of Orwell’s “Two Minutes of Hate” out of many.

Let’s see, there was the infantile, self-righteous outrage against all those who opposed compulsory vaccination–inspired by an ‘outbreak’ of a measly 150 cases.    Do you know the etymology of the word ‘measly‘?  It’s a bit telling, in this case.  We had the whole Baltimore thing, and the Ferguson thing.  Oh yea, and the hapless rural pizza place that ended up on the business end of a societal pile-on to end all pile-ons.  One of the few instances that gloriously backfired.  Coincidentally(?), pretty much every Outrage Du Jour you can think of feeds into the liberal, progressive mindset, that is so desperate for hate-mongering fodder to make hay with, that they find themselves scouring the globe for ‘micro-aggressions.’

The ‘outrage’ regarding the pizza place that wouldn’t do gay weddings was scary in a lot of ways, but it wasn’t all that surprising.  One surprise was the case where the death threat was issues, and the person who issued the threat was fired.  I expected that person to get an award.  The intolerance and bigotry of the pro-gay marriage activists in this case, and their quick inclination to begin turning over violent options in their minds, gives us a hint as to the kind of danger civilization is threatened with, once the powers-that-be turn to manufacturing outrage as a means of furthering policy.

But the Confederate flag thing… I find it just embarrassing.  Not for my own sake, mind you, but for the hordes of mealy-mouth, politically correct mobs that rose up to take issue with something that had absolutely nothing to do with the underlying crime it was being associated with.  I am embarrassed for them, since they do not have the capacity to be embarrassed themselves.  I presently find myself ashamed to be part of the human race, again, in large part because the ones who should be ashamed of themselves, aren’t at all.

Evidently, it really is the case that the masses can be conditioned, like Pavlov’s dog, to react as desired, on cue.  All that is needed is the right bone to be thrown in front of them, and that’s all it takes for the mob to do its work.  In fact, the situation is so bad that people are salivating even before they see the bone.  They want to hate, you see.   Every person on the planet wishes that they could do some good with their lives.  In the old days, they started orphanages, fed the poor, and stood up for the defenseless.  Today, they just get pissed off for a few weeks.  Hate is a substitute for actual effort.  They’ve done their part–they hated with a vengeance.

So it is that the people who supposedly are the most opposed to hatred, those most opposed to prejudice, bigotry, violence, and bullying have actually become worse than the ones they thought they were opposed to.  They’ve become the bigot.  They are the bully.  But it is alright, you see, because the vitriol is being unleashed upon a person or persons who deserve it.

The dynamics of all this was well understood a long time ago.  It is all there in Jacques Ellul’s Propaganda.

I do not speak to the ones who have become fully immersed in this vicious, self-serving cycle.  They’ve been reduced to children, whether of their own volition or external forces, I don’t entirely know.  At any rate, one of the things I learned a long time ago is that you can never win an argument with a child.  I speak instead to those who have begun to wake up from the daze, who sense that their past behavior was the result of manipulations.  They want to grow up, now.  They want to be genuine free-thinkers.  They want to be Men and Women.  Previously, they pushed people around, and justified it, but now they can see that they were complicit.  They’re compromised, and they know it.

A recent article I saw highlights the outright foolishness of this era.  A Wal-Mart refused to make a Confederate flag birthday cake, but happily made an ISIS battle flag.   This is apropos on so many levels; similarly, while ISIS is beheading people left and right, mainly Christians (who deserve it, right?) but many others, the United States government and the world is doing… Nothing.

At least, nothing that will actually accomplish anything.

Conversely, a nutjob kills a bunch of people in a black church, and there is massive outrage directed at something that will actually accomplish… Nothing.

Yes, that seems about right.

Wal-Mart issued a statement:

“An associate in a local store did not know what the design meant and made a mistake. The cake should not have been made and we apologize”

In a sad, sad way, this tells the whole story.  The Adults do know what the design ‘means.’  The Children only recognize what the Conditioners tell them to be Outraged about.

The Hate-Meme seems to have been oriented around three photos found on Dylann Roof’s web page, thelastrhodesian.com.

The Children have never heard of Rhodesia  It wasn’t mentioned in the Common Core curriculum.  Now that they have encountered it, they are confused.  Is that what Georgia was called at first, when the country was founded back in the early 1900s?

For the Adults, it is the first clue that it wasn’t the American south, circa 1860, that fired Roof’s imagination.  The Confederate ‘flag’ was not Roof’s flag.  The Rhodesian one, was.

Here are the three offending pictures.

100_2042-dylan-roof-confederate-flag-2

100_2089-dylann-roof-confederate-flag-3

100_2118-dylan-roof-confederate-flag-1

But there were other pictures, too.  Did you know that?  There were these two, for example:

dylann-roof-american-flag100_2115

dylann-roof-american-flag-100_2130

I bet you anything that in many, many, places, where the Confederate flag flies, the US flag does as well.  Dylann Roof seems to have a different perspective on this whole flag business than your average southerner, no?

One might get the impression that he was all about flags, but actually, of the 60 images or so, these are the only ones with flags in them at all.  Here is a sampling of some of the others:

dylann-roof-harley-davidson-100_1681

dylann-roof-trees-103600296_18

dylann-roof-crosses-100_1704

No faux-outrage against Harley-Davidson derived from this incident, that I am aware of.   No treatises on how the symbolic racism embodied in the Harley-Davidson name.

Look!  Dylann Roof next to crosses!  Time to purge all of America of Christians!  (Ooops.  Too soon to let that objective out of the bag.  Best stick to the low-hanging fruit the Confederate flag represents.)

Roof had 20+ pics with trees behind him…

BURN THE FORESTS DOWN, them FESTERING PITS OF BIGOTRY!

Then there was this picture. Did anyone see this one?  I doubt it very much.  It didn’t feed the narrative.

Dylann-roof-dead-white-guy-vlcsnap-2015-02-08-21h39m51s23

For a time, this was on his front page.  Perhaps it was important to him in some way that the Confederate flag was not?

If only we had his manifesto so we could know what he really thought!

Oh, that’s right.  We do.

You can read it here: rtf88

His opening lines:

“I was not raised in a racist home or environment. Living in the South, almost every White person has a small amount of racial awareness, simply beause of the numbers of negroes in this part of the country. But it is a superficial awareness.”

So much for the idea that Roof was racist because he imbibed the racism from his Confederate surroundings!

If it wasn’t his upbringing or constant exposures to the Confederate flag that changed him, what was it?  He actually tells us:

The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words “black on White crime” into Google, and I have never been the same since that day. The first website I came to was the Council of Conservative Citizens. There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on White murders. I was in disbelief. At this moment I realized that something was very wrong. How could the news be blowing up the Trayvon Martin case while hundreds of these black on White murders got ignored?

In other words, Roof noticed something that very few, sadly, have noticed.  While the media and the masses literally ruined people over one manufactured crisis after another, Roof saw that other, more serious issues were never being mentioned.

You know, just like how Wal-Mart wouldn’t bake a cake with the Confederate flag on it, which hasn’t had blood on it for more than a hundred years, but it blissfully made one with the ISIS battle flag on it–ISIS, the ones mowing down hundreds and hundreds of people at a go and sticking their heads on stakes.  This, after raping the women and children.  This, while presently promising to do the same in England, in the US, in France, well, everywhere.  And they will do it, too.  But the Confederate flag, the horror!

It was not the Confederate flag that killed those Christians in the black church.  If anything, it was the war against ‘micro-aggressions’ that did.

Interestingly, there is no mention of the Confederate flag in his manifesto at all, or anything directly about the Civil War, at all.  There is this about the American flag, though:

I hate the sight of the American flag. Modern American patriotism is an absolute joke. People pretending like they have something to be proud while White people are being murdered daily in the streets. Many veterans believe we owe them something for “protecting our way of life” or “protecting our freedom”. But im not sure what way of life they are talking about. How about we protect the White race and stop fighting for the jews. I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940’s American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion. So I dont blame the veterans of any wars up until after Vietnam, because at least they had an American to be proud of and fight for.

But hey!  You all just keep associating the Confederate flag with Dylann Roof!  I mean, if you want to have absolutely no connection to the real world.

As you can see, I actually took the time to research this issue before forming an opinion on it.  The thing that really caught my attention as I reflected on it though, was how Roof had noticed how the Two Minutes of Hate obscured deeper problems in American society.   He drew the wrong lesson, though.  He thought he was witnessing some kind of battle between the races, when really what he was witnessing was a political maneuver that liberals have been using in America to advance its agenda–successfully.

We came close to seeing the Moment of Outrage tactic descend into violence with the pizza place in Indiana, but in Charleston it actually transpired.  Not, ironically, by someone who was drunk on red meat, but someone who saw others getting drunk on red meat and was disgusted.  He spotted the Rage and found it incomprehensible.  In trying to understand it, he came to certain conclusions. But his conclusions were wrong: It’s not the blacks that are the problem, but liberalism.  The solution is not to shoot anyone, but to resist being manipulated.  In short, to GROW UP before more people get hurt.

It is just common sense that Moments of Hate are going to inspire crazies to do things that we really wished they hadn’t done.  But when I worry about more people getting hurt, I’m not talking about the loners.  I worry far more about the mob, and the violence it can inflict.  The French Revolution comes to mind.  And the Bolsheviks.

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    • Timaahy on June 29, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    It was not the Confederate flag that killed those Christians in the black church. It was liberals and their hypocritical war against ‘micro-aggressions’ that did.

    “It was not ISIS that beheaded all those Christians. It was the US citizens who elected George W Bush.”

    • Anthony on June 29, 2015 at 7:12 pm
      Author

    RIGHT! Because George Bush has been president for the last 7 years.

    Here you go, Tim. Have another drink:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

    I updated the post a little after you commented, by the way.

    • Timaahy on June 29, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Not sure if you amended it because of my comment, but either way, thank you – it is now marginally better.

    It was not the Confederate flag that killed those Christians in the black church. If anything, it was the war against ‘micro-aggressions’ that did.

    Well, no… if anything, it was Dylan Roof. Sure, there are a multitude of factors that may have led him there… but laying the blame solely on a “war” against things that you personally consider “micro-aggressions” is a little hard to swallow.

    Speaking of hard to swallow, I know we’re “down under” here, but that doesn’t mean we’re completely backwards. I know about kool-aid. 🙂

    What I don’t know, however, is what you’re referring to. Are you suggesting I believe George W. Bush is to blame for ISIS, because I’m just accepting some kind of standard liberal narrative? Because if you are, you’ve missed my point completely.

    • Anthony on June 29, 2015 at 8:07 pm
      Author

    Sorry, I revised it for my own reasons. But I’ll take ‘marginally better’ as a better compliment than I can usually expect. 🙂

    I won’t disagree with you on the “if anything, it was Dylan Roof.” If you’re going to go to that level, I’m all there with you. However, if you haven’t noticed, there are an awful lot of people who think it was the Confederate flag that went on a rampage, there.

    What you fail to take into consideration in all that swallowing is the fact that Roof himself says it was the media’s complete detachment from reality that set him off. I quoted his very words.

    Perhaps you are unaware of the early report which totally misrepresented the 911 call Zimmerman made, to make him say something racially when he did anything but. The ‘media’ knew what Zimmerman “really’ thought, regardless of what he actually said, because they are fixated on ‘perfecting society.’ Micro-aggressions is just one way of characterizing their quest.

    Anyway, it’s Roof’s own words you have to wrestle with there.

    Of course, with the latest SCOTUS rulings, I can understand how you can read his words to mean whatever you want. That’s part of the program, I understand. 🙂

    Re: George Bush, there were 2 different things you could have meant, and it still isn’t clear which. You could mean,

    1. Obviously, it wasn’t George Bush, just like it is obvious that the ‘micro-aggressions’ didn’t kill the Christians. Or,
    2. Sure, micro-aggressions killed those Christians, if you’ll just concede that Bush is to blame for ISIS.

    From your follow up, it sounds like you meant #1. But this still forgets that there is presently a war on the Confederate flag right now, as if it was somehow complicit in Roof’s actions. So, my criticism applies more to all those folks then to you, is all that means.

    • Dannyboy on June 30, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Hi Tony,

    That’s a lot of fluff covering not a lot of substance.

    “The Children only recognize what the Conditioners tell them to be Outraged about.”

    You mean like the appalling treatment of white christian males in America? Thank goodness YOUR partisan outrage could never be cynically manufactured by news organisations!

    “The Children have never heard of Rhodesia”

    A veritable Mardi Gras of elaborate dancing here, from someone who is usually all too eager to draw tenuous ideological connections when it feeds his own narrative. Trees, Harley Davidsons, anything else that Dylan Roof has ever appeared in a photo with! All to avoid the unpalatable but inescapable conclusion that this violent loser was motivated by a political ideology not too dissimilar to one that you and EB have expressed at length here and elsewhere. White people are the main targets of racism in America today! Black deaths at the hands of the police are overhyped and generally the fault of the (usually) dead black teenager in question! Tyranny is upon us!!!

    The confederate flag came back into wide-spread use in Southern States in the 1960s, as part of the resistance to desegregation. It was the flag of the Dixiecrats who migrated to the Republican party after the Civil Rights Act passed. It was the flag of the new KKK, the flag of States’ Rights. Get it? It was, and is, the flag of white southern christian opposition to equality for African-Americans. Dylan Roof never went to Zimbabwe as far as I know (and he is too young to have ever been to Rhodesia), but it is not hard to see how someone of his political tendency could strongly identify with BOTH those flags as part of his gnawing white victimhood mentality.

    Do you have some comment to make about the underlying liberal bias of the “Council of Conservative Citizens”? I honestly wouldn’t be surprised at this point. Breitbart and WND also quite frequently run the kind of “Brutal Black on White Murder” articles that he SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS HAVING INFLUENCED HIM. Darn liberals!

    “Roof noticed something that very few, sadly, have noticed.”

    Dude

    .

    The confederate flag didn’t shoot anybody. You’re right about that. But gay people getting married could destroy society.

    Right?

    • End Bringer on June 30, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    “You mean like the appalling treatment of white christian males in America? Thank goodness YOUR partisan outrage could never be cynically manufactured by news organisations!”

    Well, given how from the media we get outrage from scores of liberal groups over a Christian business owner simply refusing to participate in an event that is viewed as sinful, while in the meantime ISIS publically throws 4 homosexuals off a roof and we get…

    *cricket chirp*

    So yeah, it seems someone needs to call attention to the (deliberate?) dissonance with the media and liberals. Because it certainly won’t be reported otherwise.

    “All to avoid the unpalatable but inescapable conclusion that this violent loser was motivated by a political ideology not too dissimilar to one that you and EB have expressed at length here and elsewhere.”

    ????

    How is that avoided? SJ is explicitly pointing out that what motivated him wasn’t a flag, or admiration for the Confederacy but his realization of liberal manipulation he’s been calling out for years. He is simply saying Roof’s conclusion was wrong, and the REAL solution is to STOP BEING MANIPULATED.

    That’s what SJ has said for years and this whole post is about.

    But I suppose you’re still very much dancing to the Conditioner’s strings if you can put more weight to 3 random photos over Roof’s very explicit manifesto. After all it’s the same thing you did with Elliot Roger’s eugenic argument in favor of your own confirmation bias.

    “The confederate flag didn’t shoot anybody. You’re right about that. But gay people getting married could destroy society.

    Right?”

    Ignoring reality in favor of how one wishes the world to be to justify their immorality, never ends well for anyone.

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    while in the meantime ISIS publically throws 4 homosexuals off a roof and we get…

    *cricket chirp*

    Sooooooo many things to correct with this statement… but I think I’ll bite my tongue, and simply ask: Which news sites have you been reading?

    • End Bringer on June 30, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/03/05/dnt-damon-isis-gay-executions.cnn

    Thanks for proving mine and SJ’s point, Timmy.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 8:15 pm
      Author

    Sorry, DH, I scoured your comment for something of substance to respond to but just couldn’t find anything. The best I could find was an impassioned argument against the Confederate flag, which, interestingly enough, I haven’t heard you make before. Ever.

    I’ll give you that we’ve talked about the fact that liberal progressives are the ones that were, historically racist bigots–a fact you have done your utmost to deny. But this is the first time you’ve felt like you had to go after the Confederate flag.

    It’s almost like you were… uh, incited.

    Anyway, I will throw back to you what I tossed back at Tim. You say, “it is not hard to see how someone of his political tendency could strongly identify with BOTH those flags as part of his gnawing white victimhood mentality.”

    If only we could live forever in liberal-la-la land where we could just sit around making up motives for people and scouting for micro-aggressions! Alas, its the real world, where Roof specifically laid out what incited him. It wasn’t even the ‘black on white’ crime. It was the merciless flogging of Zimmerman (a white hispanic, you’ll recall) while other crimes were never mentioned.

    And he was right about that.

    It looks like liberal race-baiting backfired in this case. As far as I’m concerned, based on Roof’s own testimony, the ones to blame for the Charleston shootings are not those waving the Confederate flag, but the race-pushers, who see racism behind every twig and under every pebble.

    That’s not white Christian conservatives, my friend.

    You’re fighting against Roof’s own testimony. A tough pill to swallow, I know. Here you are, busily trying to perfect society, and the crazies keep coming along screwing it up. All your good intentions gone to pot! Hey, DH, here’s an idea! Instead of the dog constantly returning to its vomit, how about considering that your entire estimation of reality is wrong?

    heh

    I know THAT is a tough pill to swallow, but that is the rub here isn’t it. My position is, “Don’t play chicken with reality.” Your position is to alter reality so the chicken survives the collision. But the problem is that there are some parts of reality that can’t be altered. You’re right up against some of them right here.

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    Perhaps you are unaware of the early report which totally misrepresented the 911 call Zimmerman made, to make him say something racially when he did anything but. The ‘media’ knew what Zimmerman “really’ thought, regardless of what he actually said

    You don’t think Zimmerman was racially motivated?

    But I am happy at the implication that people’s words can be taken at face value. Obamacare can now be seen in a whole new light!

    Re: George Bush, there were 2 different things you could have meant, and it still isn’t clear which

    The point was that laying the blame at the feet of a single person is seldom useful when you’re looking at a stampede. It matters not whether George Dubya contributed to it (and the fact that he hasn’t been president for seven years doesn’t matter either)… the fact is that even if he was the only contributing factor, nothing justifies the kind of brutality that ISIS has inflicted. If you are going to limit the blame to one thing, which you are trying desperately to do, then the only people to blame are ISIS.

    Although I think we’re calling them Daesh now.

    There is a whole shtload of issues to unpack from your post. I really just don’t know where to start.

    One thing that really stands, though, out is how much weight you give to Roof’s own words. Just because someone says they did something for reason X, doesn’t mean we should just accept it without question, and even if we do, it doesn’t mean that reason X is a legitimate concern. Roof could have blamed the whole thing on Oreos. After all, having a soft, vulnerable white substance surrounded by two hard black biscuits symbolises everything that’s wrong with America. Would you just say, “I’m just going to go ahead and believe the nutjob who shot a bunch of innocents”? And even if you did believe him, is the next logical thought “That’s a totally valid concern. Those Oreos have to go”?

    Which leads me to the other thing that really stands out. There is an underlying irony that permeates your whole argument, which I don’t think you’ve considered.

    The underlying issue, it seems, is that liberals are fond of making a song and dance over nothing. But the fact that liberals do that is upsetting, and it’s perfectly OK to be upset about it.

    Which essentially translates to:

    “Liberals don’t have a right to be upset about that, but I have a right to be upset about them being upset.”

    Does that seem fair to you?

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 8:16 pm
      Author

    EB, CNN is a radical right wing source. Everyone knows that.

    You best corroborate it with something from the left:

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/isis-throws-another-gay-man-building-%E2%80%93-after-he-survives-fall-town-stones-him-death030215

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks for proving mine and SJ’s point, Timmy.

    Oh no problem, EB. Always happy to help.

    Although I have to ask… How did I do that, exactly?

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    While I’m feeling helpful…

    The correct way to express your previous post is “my and SJ’s point”, or “SJ’s and my point”. As a general rule, the sentence should still make sense if you remove one of the nouns. Removing “and SJ’s” from your original post yields “mine point”, and so “SJ’s and my” point is correct.

    This is also a useful rule when confused about “me” and “I”. For example:

    “EB has a curious definition of proof when he applies it to Danny and I” is not correct, for the reason outlined above.

    Good luck.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 8:36 pm
      Author

    Tim, you were posting as I posted my reply to DH. My argument applies to you, as well. You say:

    “One thing that really stands, though, out is how much weight you give to Roof’s own words.”

    The question is how we get from his action to a brain-dead attack on the Confederate flag. If there isn’t any basis in the man’s own position, then you’re just making stuff up. Like I said, to DH:

    “If only we could live forever in liberal-la-la land where we could just sit around making up motives for people and scouting for micro-aggressions! Alas, its the real world, where Roof specifically laid out what incited him. It wasn’t even the ‘black on white’ crime. It was the merciless flogging of Zimmerman (a white hispanic, you’ll recall) while other crimes were never mentioned.”

    In fact, your next comment is completely consistent with the whole ‘micro-aggression’ program:

    “Just because someone says they did something for reason X, doesn’t mean we should just accept it without question, and even if we do, it doesn’t mean that reason X is a legitimate concern.”

    In other words, it pretty much doesn’t matter what anyone says. YOU know their real reasoning. You should be a Supreme Court justice!

    As an aside, there is a big difference between taking someone’s statements on their face and ‘accepting it without question.’ The issue is whether or not there is reason to probe further. Do you have some ACTUAL reason to think that the disparity in race reporting was not the catalyst for his ‘research’?

    Of course you don’t.

    Anything you might offer is pure fiction at this point. Feel free to provide actual evidence, and then by all means we can talk about it.

    But again, the problem is that we have to get from his stated catalyst to the liberal melt down on the Confederate flag that happened literally overnight.

    I bet neither you nor DH ever raised it to anyone, privately or publicly, until the puppet-masters jerked your strings.

    “There is an underlying irony that permeates your whole argument, which I don’t think you’ve considered.

    “Liberals don’t have a right to be upset about that, but I have a right to be upset about them being upset.”

    Does that seem fair to you?

    Au contraire. I have totally considered it. In fact, its why I’m writing this. I’m not upset about liberals being upset. I’m upset about liberals perpetuating dangerous and destructive policies that get people killed and cities burned down.

    For the liberals, every ‘micro-aggression’ serves as a pretext for a massive overhaul of society. But, as I have alluded to, detecting ‘micro-aggressions’ requires an omniscience normally reserved for God. It’s inevitable that people will get hurt.

    Ie, “accept [] without question” that “Hands up! Don’t Shoot” really happened. Then, when Ferguson is in flames, sit around justifying yourself.

    I was thinking about this a little more today, and I think my problem is that liberals refuse to take responsibility for anything they do. Zimmerman never said, “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.” “Hands up! Don’t shoot!” never happened. The cop who is up on the most charges in Baltimore is actually… wait for it… black. And don’t forget the ‘beer summit’, where the puppeteer-in-chief worked his butt off to downplay his own leap to judgement.

    No apologies from anyone. No change in behavior. No, “Hey, maybe we contributed to the burning of Baltimore by our behavior.”

    Nope. Just cue up the next Two Minutes of Rage, and everyone is ready to rumble!

    I am not ‘upset.’ I am concerned that more people are going to get hurt and even die, and this may very well be me and my family.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 8:42 pm
      Author

    Oh yea, and the Indiana pizza place does not actually screen their customers for sexual orientation and had never refused to serve a gay person.

    The one rare case where a frenzy led to the people being better off, financially, than they were before. Thanks, haters! 😉

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    the Indiana pizza place does not actually screen their customers for sexual orientation and had never refused to serve a gay person

    That just makes their actions look more ridiculous.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 9:14 pm
      Author

    “That just makes their actions look more ridiculous.”

    The pizza place or the people that piled onto them?

    • End Bringer on June 30, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    “Although I have to ask… How did I do that, exactly?”

    By showing you really don’t know anything other than what the Conditioners deem to tell you. And apparently not even when it’s made available, but just not brandied about as loudly.

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    The pizza place.

    If they were genuine in their concerns, and applied their “conscience” consistently, they would screen their customers for sexual orientation. And they’d also refuse service to atheists, adulterers, blasphemers, coveters, liars, thieves, and Seventh Day Adventists.

    But they don’t. So they end up looking like a bunch of petulant, bigoted hypocrites.

    Which, of course, they are.

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    What on earth are you talking about? Are you suggesting I didn’t know that ISIS has been throwing gay people off buildings?

    Also, I don’t drink brandy.

    (It’s “bandied about”, you muppet)

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 9:41 pm
      Author

    That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard, Tim.

    I think you just put the ‘asinine’ in the Good, the Bad, and the Asinine. 😉

    I think this illustrates very nicely the God-complex that drives the ‘micro-aggression’ movement. Your comment does not at all reflect any viewpoint I’ve ever heard stated in opposition of gay marriage or homosexuality. For you to say this means that you have completely disregarded what people have said for what you think they really mean.

    As far as fallacies go, we call it a ‘strawman’ fallacy. But this is more dangerous than mere fallacy-making. Though they are innocent outwardly, you are convinced they are guilty inwardly… and for this, they deserve every bit of scorn, derision, and yes, even violence, that happens to them.

    You should read the Ellul piece. It was one of the things I edited to add. You are well described in it.

    http://eugenics.us/excerpt-from-propaganda-by-jacques-ellul-people-want-to-hate-propaganda-gives-them-what-they-want/317.htm

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard, Tim.

    Oh… sht… you obviously haven’t heard, then. Look I’m sorry to have to be the one to tell you this… but Donald Trump is running for president and he’s going to build a big wall to keep out all those dirty Mexicans and then make them pay for it.

    I think you just put the ‘asinine’ in the Good, the Bad, and the Asinine.

    I have noticed you using my favourite word more frequently these days. My blog and I take full credit.

    For you to say this means that you have completely disregarded what people have said for what you think they really mean.

    Not at all. It’s simply pointing out an inconsistency between their words and actions.

    they deserve every bit of scorn, derision, and yes, even violence, that happens to them.

    I hope you’re not implying that I think that way, SJ. That would be bad.

    • End Bringer on June 30, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    Then what on earth was the point of your post about where I get my news, if you weren’t contesting it’s validity, Timmy?

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    EB,

    You are an idiot.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 11:06 pm
      Author

    No, it is not consistent. I SAID, none of their words suggest that implication. NONE. You’re MAKING IT UP. It’s literally ALL IN YOUR HEAD.

    “I hope you’re not implying that I think that way, SJ.”

    No, not you.

    The problem is that you cannot control how people are going to act and react. If you whip enough people into a froth, there will be a certain number of crazies among them. I fully expect violence to continue to result from Two Minutes of Hate, despite the fact that you and DH wouldn’t yourself dream of engaging in such behavior.

    But then, I fully expect violence to continue to manifest no matter what anyone does. That conviction is one of the foundational reasons why I believe in a republican system of rigorous checks and balances and strict adherence to plain interpretation of the law as a pre-condition for any meaningful sense of the ‘rule of law’ to exist.

    But the problem is that I can say that, but you still think if I’m being consistent, based on what I just said, I wouldn’t deliver a newspaper to a gay person.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 11:15 pm
      Author

    If EB is an idiot, so am I.

    You made it sound like his information was wrong. Hence all the things you needed to ‘correct’ in what he said. We’re not liberals–we can’t read people’s minds and sense their deepest motives, that even the other person may be unaware of. If you have a point to make, you need to actually commit it to words.

    You also need to think about the impression it leaves that all of your own news sources seem to be comedians. It undermines your credibility greatly, especially when EB is throwing up CNN as corroboration.

    The bottom line is that while liberals are at war against ‘micro-aggressions’ ISIS is on the march. Laugh it off if you want, or show your true stripes by offering mere insult as an argument, but that will not prevent the Islamicists from cutting off your heads.

    The irony remains: western liberals are so red with rage that blood comes out every orifice at the thought of someone not making a wedding cake for gays, while in the meantime, gays are being murdered in cold blood, along with thousands of others, by people that have stated plainly that they intend to do this worldwide.

    It’s hard to take you guys seriously. I, for one, don’t–at least as far as your arguments go. But I do take you seriously in the sense that your completely skewed sense of proportion will, literally, get many, many, many people killed. Literally.

    • Anthony on June 30, 2015 at 11:16 pm
      Author

    btw, when I click on your youtube links and discover it is to comedic ‘news’ sites, I don’t bother watching further. My time is worth more than that.

    • Timaahy on June 30, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    You’re MAKING IT UP. It’s literally ALL IN YOUR HEAD.

    They are denying service to someone for their sinful lifestyle. Except they’re doing it selectively.

    Like the British hoteliers that refused to accommodate a same-sex couple. Do you think they were asking every heterosexual couple that stayed with them whether they were married? Of course they weren’t.

    Why do you think that might be?

    Why do you think it’s OK for Christian businesses to serve any and all sinners, but not bake a cake for a same-sex wedding?

    You also need to think about the impression it leaves that all of your own news sources seem to be comedians.

    Well, obviously that’s not true. But congratulations on extrapolating from two data points… you would make a fine actuary!

    I have noticed, however, that there aren’t any right-wing comedians. Hmm.

    If EB is an idiot, so am I.

    No, EB is an idiot. Either that or he’s maliciously obtuse. I don’t care which – either way he’s an insufferable conversationalist.

    EB – you said this:

    Well, given how from the media we get outrage from scores of liberal groups over a Christian business owner simply refusing to participate in an event that is viewed as sinful, while in the meantime ISIS publically throws 4 homosexuals off a roof and we get… *cricket chirp*

    “Given how from the media we get outrage from scores of liberal groups”? WTF is that meant to mean? Is the outrage from the media or the liberals?

    Either way, you seem to be complaining about a lack of outrage on ISIS’s treatment of homosexuals. So my question was, “Which news sites have you been reading?”, because I’ve seen plenty of outrage at the news sites I’ve been reading.

    Instead of being a presumptuous fcking idiot, might you consider that people like Danny and me are much more keenly aware of the injustices perpetrated against LGBTIQ people than someone like you? Might you consider that of course I’m fcking aware of that incident, plus a thousand others that you haven’t heard of? Might you consider that just because you personally haven’t seen liberals decrying ISIS on Fox News, WND, Brietbart and SarahPalin.com, that might mean that we’re busy being outraged elsewhere? Might you consider that there are literally millions of things to be outraged about, but people are naturally more concerned about the problems in their own backyard? Might you consider that an individual US citizen can actually take action against an Indiana pizza parlour, but not ISIS? Might you consider that LGBTIQ people haven’t exactly had a rosy history, and they’re fcking fed up with bigots like you denying them basic freedoms? Might you consider that you are not the arbiter of what should and shouldn’t outrage oppressed minorities? Might you consider that it would cost you a lot less to just make the fcking cake than it costs someone to walk out of the shop feeling like a second-class citizen?

    Might you consider that we can just level the same accusation at you? After all, I HAVEN’T SEEN YOU BEING OUTRAGED AT THE MASSACRE IN TUNISIA SO YOU MUST BE A LIBERAL HYPOCRITE.

    How dare you assume that I wouldn’t be aware of such an atrocity.

    Use your fcking brain next time.

    • Anthony on July 1, 2015 at 12:09 am
      Author

    Wrong on every count, Tim.

    Every, single, one.

    Including the last.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/StevenCrowder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAoDGra-S0Q

    And many people don’t realize that Glenn Beck was a humorist, before he learned of Saul Alinksy.

    Sorry, Tim, but I just don’t find your protestations credible, here.

    It doesn’t sound like you have any clue what you’re talking about, to me. You are in no position to condemn the anti-gay marriage position, since you need to first comprehend it, accurately, to do so.

    I’m out.

    peace.

    PS, you did note that EB quoted from CNN, and not “Fox News, WND, Brietbart and SarahPalin.com”

    Discrediting yourself. Again.

    Peace.

    • Anthony on July 1, 2015 at 12:15 am
      Author

    P.P.S.

    I quoted from a gay news site.

    But I regularly get my news from the Huffington, Common Dreams, the DailyKos, the Politico, and the Democratic Underground.

    I actually do know what liberals are talking about and thinking about, and so on.

    Something tells me that, unlike me, you don’t actually know what the ‘opposing’ viewpoint news sites are reporting. You, being God, know that what it is, can’t be good.

    Ok, now I’m really out. I need to move on to other issues, and you are totally off the deep end on this one.

    • Timaahy on July 1, 2015 at 12:27 am

    I could, of course, respond to all of that. But I’ll let you go.

    OK maybe just one comment. 🙂

    You’ve characterised my views a little unfairly, and made some assumptions, as EB did, that you probably should have checked first. I’ve sought clarification from both of you a number of times in this thread, lest I argue against something you didn’t intend.

    The same courtesy would be appreciated.

    Another courtesy would be to not interpret disagreement as being “totally off the deep end”. Given that we both believe we’re right, and we both believe we are supported by the facts, I could simply throw the same comment at you. I don’t though, because discussing it and exploring our differences is more interesting.

    Peace, indeed.

    • End Bringer on July 1, 2015 at 3:23 am

    “The same courtesy would be appreciated.”

    Except when we do, we apparently just get insulted.

    SJ is right. You’re just flat out wrong. What’s more, you’ve gone beyond simply disagreeing to now being a complete troll. And there’s no point in continuing to feed a troll.

    Good day, sir.

    • Timaahy on July 1, 2015 at 4:14 am

    You did no such thing. All you did was jump to a completely unreasonable conclusion.

    As for troll… Well, that’s just laughable, and you obviously don’t know what one is. I’m ready for an actual conversation when you’re done embarrassing yourself with unjustified assumptions.

    Flat out wrong? About what? And why? You sound like you’re… What’s that thing you say all the time… Oh yeah, asserting.

    • Anthony on July 1, 2015 at 8:14 am
      Author

    I’ll just clarify what I meant by ‘the deep end.’

    Your characterization of the Pizza place and what you think the reasoning is of Christians who are opposed to gay marriage, is completely wrong.

    Never mind the ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ element (ie, they weren’t actually guilty of the crimes laid at their feet, but in your view that just makes them even more ridiculous; but if they had been guilty of the crimes you would have welcomed holy terror unleashed upon them), your comment illustrates near-complete ignorance of the actual position you are fighting against.

    That’s the thing that torpedoed my interest in this conversation.

    As for the actual beliefs held by those who are opposed to gay marriage–including the underlying rationale–I have plenty of posts on this blog on it, and you won’t be able to find a single one that supports your characterization. I know that others have different things that concern them about it, but even there, what they say is not consistent with what you think they should do.

    In a happy coincidence, it is precisely this kind of behavior that seems to be consistent with cultivating Moments of Outrage.

    I’m out for now.

    • Brittany on November 4, 2018 at 2:20 am

    I find this in 2018, after fortunately coming to the same conclusion as you after witnessing this horror show by liberals growing worse by the day. Unfortunately, more people have came to the wrong conclusions and there has been more blood spilt. Ironically, this only furthers the liberal agenda. I am so sad for America. I see so many have woke up over the past couple years; but I wonder, is it too late? How much more violence will be done before this is over? Will it ever be over? For my children, I hope this madness will end.

    • Anthony on November 4, 2018 at 7:54 am
      Author

    Thanks for your comment, Brittany.

    There are so many elements in play here that serve to fan the flames that to me it seems very unlikely that the rage will die down. As Ellul says (in the link to the excerpt of “Propaganda” in the OP), the bottom line is that people LIKE feeling enraged. Their lives being otherwise boring and meaningless, being angry all the time makes them feel like they are engaged in a cause, especially when they notice other people being enraged over the same things. So far, Ellul’s insight on this, compared to the modern American landscape, seems accurate.

    Is it too late? I would say so. But what does that mean? I’m not sure. At least as it stands right now, I think the Ragessives will explode (heightened if the GOP wins the House and Senate in the upcoming election) but the American people will not take too kindly to it; similar to how all of the Ayers of the 60s and 70s thought they had a good chance of ‘winning’ through their bombings and what not, only to discover that the average American won’t tolerate it.

    Only time will tell at this point.

  1. […] Rage.  On this blog I have talked several times about how the propagandists try to generate change by generating rage.  They love this […]

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