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So This Is What It Feels Like: Millions in Camps in China; the World Does Nothing

I study genocides.

When I say I ‘study’ them, I don’t mean I wait for the NYT or WAPO to take an interest in something before I imbibe the content of their headline as the exclusive content of my views.  I read books–lots of them.  I watch documentaries, when I think I can get something from them a book can’t get me.  I have even helped facilitate the release of previously unavailable or hard to find primary source material such as the Bahutu Manifesto [Rwandan genocide], The Memoirs of Naim Bey [Armenian genocide], and Allowing the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Life [the Holocaust], with my eyes on some others.  This is all part of my guiding principles, listed to the right on this blog.

Most fascinating of all is reading newspaper articles and editorials that are contemporaneous with the atrocities.  In almost all cases, what was unfolding in some far off place was generally known to the public.  In most cases, elected officials, intelligence agencies, and military men, seem to have an even better picture.  As I read through this material, the thought frequently comes to me:  “how frustrating it must be to have such evil unfold in our own life and times and be powerless to prevent it; how infuriating it must be to have to watch while those who do have the power to do something, do nothing. I wonder what that must be like.”

Well, now I know.

China continues to nonchalantly detain millions of people in camps throughout its country, inflicting various horrors on those people.  I leave it to the reader to ascertain what those horrors are.  At this point, China has stopped short of actually exterminating them.  However, with the pathetic reaction of the world to this unfolding nightmare, it grows increasingly likely that they could exterminate them and the world would do nothing.  I’m not saying China would engage in such a Final Solution.  Just saying they could.  And then on to the next mass incarceration, I suppose.

As with Rwanda, the United Nations is revealing itself to be a worthless entity.  Formed after WW2 with the mantra of “Never Again” on its lips, It has been just about one ‘again’ after another, since.  Until Donald Trump, the United States was not much better.  That said, the whole point of a ‘United Nations’ was to deal with such issues, so I’m not entirely sure I can blame the US.  It really ought not be the world’s policeman.

Although, the United State’s complicity as an enabler certainly can’t be underestimated.  I mean, we’ve known that the UN is rubbish for decades, and with the wide variety of non-military mechanisms at our disposal to deal with China, we could have done much more.   This post, perhaps, is not the place to revisit US-Sino relations back to WW2.

Nonetheless, those relations and the history of dumbness that is the UN, speaks to a point I have often made and will continue to make:  the great horrors which we witness today rarely, if ever, manifest overnight; seeds are sown, fertilizer is applied, water is provided, the plant comes out of the ground, and then, after its proper time, the fruit corresponding to the plant appears on the plant.

At just about any point in that development, something could have been done to prevent the bitter fruit from coming forth.  The earlier in the process the ‘weeding’ takes place, the easier it is to perform the operation.  The later it gets, the harder it is to address the problem.

With China, the poisonous tree has been giving off its toxic fruits for decades.  What with Mao and the millions who died at his hand, and then the brutal one child policy, etc, there has never really been a doubt about just what kind of ‘fruit’ China is in the business of producing.  This has not prevented Nixon from normalizing relations with China, GHB’s tepid reaction to  Tiananmen, Clinton for his many crimes related to China (many!), not the least of which was allowing China to join the WTO (started under Clinton, finished under GWB), etc., etc., etc.  Trump is taking a different tact with some promise… but we’ve heard that tune before, haven’t we?

And why not, since at present Hong Kong is becoming consumed in its own conflagration, shall we remember the rank dumbassery of England, with the approval of Thatcher, for the ‘hand over’ of Hong Kong to China?  The ‘hand over’ was official 22 years ago.   You can still hear the slimy siren song of globalist soothsayers assuring us that “Hong Kong will be alright.  After all, the hand over happened a [year ago, a few years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago] and none of the things people feared would happen have actually transpired.”

Well its transpiring now, ain’t it.  [expletive deleted.]

As if there were any doubt what was going to happen to Hong Kong.  LOL

But in the minds of many people (I will refrain from providing precise examples, so as to shame them too much; after all, there is much blame to go around) just because a horror doesn’t unfold overnight, there is no particular reason to think it ever will.

But God cannot be mocked.  We reap what we sow.  Always have, always will.

So what can we do about the Uyghurs in China’s ‘concentration camps’?  Not a damn thing.

Certainly, I can’t do anything.  Most of my readers can’t do anything.  Our elected officials, our intelligence agencies, our military men, our joke of an international community, could have done something–many things–before this point, and maybe done some good.  But a time is coming, if it hasn’t arrive already, where it would require open war and the complete toppling of the communist regime in China.

Being the moral idiots that they are, they couldn’t bring themselves to believe and behave with the courage necessary to condemn China as it went whistling along its way.  Who are we to judge, right? ( “Your policy has been one which I fully understand — I’m not second-guessing — of one child per family. The result being that you’re in a position where one wage earner will be taking care of four retired people. Not sustainable.”)

Why should we think collectivism is any worse than free markets?   Hell, we need our own one child policy!  Population control for all! Er, uh, *cough* I mean ‘reproductive freedom’ for all!

What a bunch of evil morons.

Enjoy this feeling, my friend.  It is the feeling of being present as another great horror unfolds.  You, too, get to be alive and present as the next holocaust-level event happen, with nary a thing you can do about it.  And those who can do something about it?  Spare me your faux indignance and your platitudes while you take the microphone and in your saccharine voice, mouth “Never again…”

It would appear that at the moment, the  world’s last hope as far as China goes is Donald Trump.

BUT THE RUSSIANS! Er, uh, *cough* I mean, UKRAINE!

Dumb asses.

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    • End Bringer on November 24, 2019 at 10:17 pm

    Actually, the more that’s learned about the world’s reaction to the Holocaust when compared to the reactions of other atrocities, it becomes apparent that much of the horror and negative reaction it generated was almost accidental. People only had to face it because the little thing called WW2 saw family and friends sent to Europe to discover what was being done with their own eyes, and thus facing how eugenics policies actually manifest became unavoidable.

    But it really does just further illustrate the two-faced sanctimony of people who declare themselves the embodiments of compassion and champions of the oppressed. While they raise holy hell about children being detained but otherwise cared for due to border security (so long as it’s happening under the other party’s watch, mind), they’ll barely say a peep about another country mass detaining it’s own citizens. Especially when such people are trying to get in bed with those tyrannical regimes for financial gain.

    And people want to call out Trump being friendly to dictators? Spare me.

    • Anthony on November 25, 2019 at 8:47 am
      Author

    Indeed. The outrage-orgasm related to the ‘children in cages’ blamed on Trump, with pictures from Obama’s era, does highlight a special kind of hypocritical wickedness when there is no corresponding outrage-orgasms for MILLIONS of people in cages… in some other country. It sure does smell like rank partisanship of the worst kind when that sort of thing happens.

    However, outrage-orgasms are themselves a manifestation of the powerlessness that people feel.

    Ellul nails it, as far as those people are concerned: http://eugenics.us/excerpt-from-propaganda-by-jacques-ellul-people-want-to-hate-propaganda-gives-them-what-they-want/317.htm

    The people who actually did have the power to make a change are people like Biden, who, like the business owners doing business with the Nazis, chose to enrich themselves instead. The Chinese handed over more than a billion dollars to Biden’s son. That buys considerable deference, I’d say. But aside from such obvious immoral and probably criminal conduct which does (coincidentally?) seem to mark Democrat regimes vis a vis China, it still remains the case that allowing China to come to full flower is a distressingly ‘bi-partisan’ affair. Moreover, it has been an on-going feature of the US government (and that pointless org, the UN) for almost 100 years now to acquiesce to the Chi-comms behaviors.

    If the people we elect to do something won’t do something, that leaves us few options. Probably, it will lead us to the last option… having to face it with one’s own eyes, as you say… war… because evil regimes almost always push it too far and then cannot be ignored further.

    And therein lies the problem, post-WW2. Having discarded all reasonable grounds for making moral statements, and thus gutting any prospect for actually believing and behaving as though something were ‘evil’, they’ve castrated themselves. Sure, in their heart of hearts, they know that killing tens of millions of people is evil (Cambodia, Cultural Revolution, Gulags, etc), but intellectually they know they don’t have a leg to stand on. Therefore they do not stand.

    Well, and there is some money to be made, at any rate.

    • Dannyboy on November 30, 2019 at 5:30 pm

    “I study genocides.”

    Good for you. Is that because you worship a god who – according to His own PR – invented them? ?

    “Until Donald Trump, the United States was not much better.”

    Lol, yes truly. Donald Trump is the moral saviour of America. Good grief!

    I could agree with a lot of what you say here, it’s just ridiculous statements like the above (as if your current president had any genuine interests beyond his own prestige and enrichment) that make you come across like a naive partisan sap.

    “Population control for all! Er, uh, *cough* I mean ‘reproductive freedom’ for all!”

    Well that’s just silly. Tell you what, why don’t you think about the struggle for women’s right to control over their own bodies and reproductive choices from the point of view of women living in an Islamic republic, such as Iran? I think you’ll find that it all makes a lot more sense that way.

    “What a bunch of evil morons.”

    Yeah, those women fighting for reproductive freedom (and to be allowed to remove their veils) – totally evil morons!!!! Or perhaps you are painting with too broad a brush?

    “It would appear that at the moment, the world’s last hope as far as China goes is Donald Trump.”

    That is a terrifying prospect. Let’s all hope that he perceives some financial or electoral advantage in promoting equal human rights in China, otherwise I fear that your Republi-topian dreams are destined to remain unfulfilled.

    “BUT THE RUSSIANS! Er, uh, *cough* I mean, UKRAINE!”

    It is helpful in terms of laying your cards on the table to finish with an implicit endorsement of discredited Russian conspiracy theories desperately endorsed by right-wing media personalities (including Trump) in the hopes of distracting from their reliance on hostile foreign intervention in order to win elections. Not in terms of your overall credibility tho.

    • End Bringer on November 30, 2019 at 6:32 pm

    “I could agree with a lot of what you say here, it’s just ridiculous statements like the above (as if your current president had any genuine interests beyond his own prestige and enrichment) that make you come across like a naive partisan sap.”

    Says the naive partisan sap who thinks the current president is sympathetic to dictators for talking friendly while he alternatively threatens them with nukes (to which you turn around and panic that he’s TOO tough on them), throws out deals that heavily favored them, puts sanctions that economically cripples them, and let’s the military loose to wipe out terrorists, and gives more military aide than your guy Obama who ignored the rise of terrorists, ran away from red lines, gave money to terrorist supporting states, let allies be invaded with only handing out blankets for aide, and in the case of one notable dictator in Cuba, went out of his way to reach out and economically support.

    DB, that you believe you have ANY credibility to make judgements about who is and isn’t motivated purely by their Legacy and image, and who benefits both America and global freedom more is truly mind-boggling in it’s self-obliviousness.

    “Well that’s just silly. Tell you what, why don’t you think about the struggle for women’s right to control over their own bodies and reproductive choice…”

    You say it’s silly in one breath, then prove it true the next.

    “That is a terrifying prospect. Let’s all hope that he perceives some financial or electoral advantage in promoting equal human rights in China, otherwise I fear that your Republi-topian dreams are destined to remain unfulfilled.”

    He says, while Trump has signed support for human rights and the protesters.

    But regardless, we certainly know we can’t count on all those Liberal supporters in Silicon Valley and the tech companies that are more than willing to promote censorship and oppression of it means their pockets get lined with those Chinese markets, right?

    “It is helpful in terms of laying your cards on the table to finish with an implicit endorsement of discredited Russian conspiracy theories desperately endorsed by right-wing media personalities (including Trump) in the hopes of distracting from their reliance on hostile foreign intervention in order to win elections. Not in terms of your overall credibility tho.”

    Discredited by who? The same MM that screamed the Democrat “Russian Collusion!” conspiracy theory for the last few years and have seemingly welcomed the Intelligence community that they used to regard with suspicion (guess ‘WMDs in Iraq’ is a distant memory when you can bond over mutual hatred for Trump), the same investigators that are tight with the people responsible for the Steele dossier, or are you referring to the those like the previously unknown bureaucrats and diplomats being trotted out to publicly whine about their status, and testify ‘well I heard from this guy, who heard from that guy’?

    • Anthony on November 30, 2019 at 6:43 pm
      Author

    “Good for you. Is that because you worship a god who – according to His own PR – invented them? ?”

    No smiley face? Is this a comment you expect me to take seriously?

    “I could agree with a lot of what you say here, it’s just ridiculous statements like the above”

    Clearly, you aren’t paying attention.

    “Well that’s just silly.”

    No, it isn’t.

    For someone who supposedly reads this blog, you seem to be pretty uninformed on the topic. You really ought to know better by now.

    “That is a terrifying prospect.”

    I didn’t say it as though it was necessarily a good thing. I said it because it happens to be true.

    Until Trump, very little was done to counter China’s actions. I should like him to do even more. He may end up being like all who came before him, and/or even what he does may end up being woefully insufficient. But, nonetheless, it is true.

    “Not in terms of your overall credibility tho.”

    I assure you, I do not believe you are in any position whatsoever to judge anything related to my credibility. Ye who believes Trump is a ‘Russian asset.’ Ye who bought every literally stupid line about the Russian collusion thing and still evidently believes it, who cries RUSSIA! for evidently no reason other than visceral partisan rage, while China continues to mass as a threat and throws people in camps to the tune of millions. Your failure to recognize real threats and assess the information that comes to your attention leads me to …

    … I assure you, it is not my credibility you should be worried about. At any rate, I do not for a minute care one lick about YOUR assessment of MY credibility. Think about that carefully, and ponder why that might be.

    • End Bringer on November 30, 2019 at 6:57 pm

    “Until Trump, very little was done to counter China’s actions. I should like him to do even more. He may end up being like all who came before him, and/or even what he does may end up being woefully insufficient. But, nonetheless, it is true.”

    Personally, I believe whatever Trump does will indeed ultimately be insufficient. Not for lack of effort on his part, but simply because even if he wins reelection, China has shown to be more than willing to just wait things out for the next elected official who in all probability will be as much as a pushover for China as previous leaders.

    Short of war, there just isn’t any other major threat that can bring China to heel, just as it is with any dictatorship, and we know The nation has no appetite to go to war over the human rights of other people for all Liberals scream bloody about any perceived measure of infraction (towards them) where they live.

    • Anthony on November 30, 2019 at 6:57 pm
      Author

    EB:

    “He says, while Trump has signed support for human rights and the protesters.”

    Yes, there is that. Also, much more. Quite a bit of it in the public domain, but not given a lot of public airing because… RUSSIA!

    Which means that in order to be informed about the matter one would actually have to be proactive in wanting to know what the truth is, etc. Therein, I think, lies the problem with DB’s remark. He dismisses my remarks as obviously silly, which, if he was actually informed (RUSSIA!) he would know I was just recounting basic facts. China has been waging “Unrestricted Warfare” on the US for decades with piss poor American response… until Trump. It’s all there in the documentary record.

    Will what Trump does be enough? Too little too late? Very different questions than whether or not it was Trump that began fighting back.

    Apparently I didn’t win any points by making sure to put blame on Republicans, either. Partisans don’t notice attempts at balance.

    Speaking of…

    “But regardless, we certainly know we can’t count on all those Liberal supporters in Silicon Valley and the tech companies that are more than willing to promote censorship and oppression of it means their pockets get lined with those Chinese markets, right?”

    A true problem. Some of it just God-awful shameful, too. Really disgraceful. And yet, there is a very small glimmer of hope given to us by recognizing that the very same bill which Trump just signed, which you referenced, could only get to him by being passed by both the House (held by Dems) and the Senate (held by GOP). I honestly was shocked that it got through the House, and am still waiting to hear if there were some poison pills in the bill. But that it passed at all suggests that when they aren’t attempting coups with public opinion as their weapons, at least somewhere along the line our legislators have been briefed to understand what our REAL threats are.

    Probably an extremely rosy point of view for me to take, but for today at least I’ll take the win.

    • Anthony on November 30, 2019 at 7:01 pm
      Author

    And Dan, you will remember that when we were face to face, I told you to your face that I thought all the Russia shit which people were hyper-ventilating about were NOTHING compared to what China was DOING.

    Any sober analysis of the threats pertaining to Russia vs the threats pertaining to China leads to a very easy conclusion: China is magnitudes greater of a threat than Russia. If anyone does not accept this assessment, then I doubt their ability to assess anything.

    I never agreed with Romney.

    • Anthony on November 30, 2019 at 7:05 pm
      Author

    “Short of war, there just isn’t any other major threat that can bring China to heel, just as it is with any dictatorship, and we know The nation has no appetite to go to war over the human rights of other people”

    Yep.

    Which is exactly why we should have made the right call after WW2, and not bailed on our Chinese allies. Probably, China is going to end up whacking millions of people and conquering lots of territory before this is all done. The least we can do is try to learn some lessons. Lesson 1: never trust a commie. Lesson 2: there is such a thing as choosing the best of bad options. Lesson 3: just about anything is better than giving communists what they want. Lesson 4: lesson 3 proved over and over again over decades.

    • End Bringer on November 30, 2019 at 7:23 pm

    “But that it passed at all suggests that when they aren’t attempting coups with public opinion as their weapons, at least somewhere along the line our legislators have been briefed to understand what our REAL threats are.”

    Maybe. The more cynical part of me, sees this as an easy gesture to make when it’s unlikely to move the needle, and thus won’t put legislator’s money where their mouth is. Easy to make gestures of support for oppressed people when it doesn’t cost you anything, or if the opposite costs too much.

    But putting that cynicism aside, and noting that the average person (Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative) on the streets genuinely IS outraged by what’s going on, one has to note how this awareness of people’s plight came about – Because the protesters caused a big enough stir that the media had to pay attention. Compare that with those poor souls unable to make enough noise, because their ability to do so was stripped away beforehand, and are carted off in relative silence.

    An abject lesson on why those checks on government abuse still very much apply today as they did when they were written.

    • Anthony on November 30, 2019 at 7:31 pm
      Author

    Wish I could say you are wrong, EB.

    Thanks for the comments folks.

    • Dannoyboy on December 5, 2019 at 7:03 pm

    Tony,

    Please forgive me, my responses on this issue may be coloured by emotion. That’s because I both like and respect you, so it honestly pains me to see you willingly carrying water for such a patently fraudulent, narcissistic, amoral and dim-witted individual, just because he happens (unfortunately) to be the current republican president.

    I’m also sad to observe what appears to be an abandonment of principle re: impeachment. I am old enough to remember when you used to be a strong and passionate advocate for constitutional checks and balances, back in the long-forgotten Obama era. I can’t think what’s changed. 🙂 [smiley face]

    “No smiley face? Is this a comment you expect me to take seriously?”

    No, not at all. I wrote and posted it on my iPhone, and the smiley face emoji somehow rendered as a second question mark. I guess this is one reason why face-to-face conversations are just better.

    And dude, you DON’T have to care about MY credibility (I don’t have much of a public platform, so my credibility is only at issue in – regular – professional and – occasional – romantic interactions). But I care about yours. And to suggest that Ukraine was the REAL problem in the 2016 US election is falling for super-obvious Russian/Fox News propaganda to an intellectually discrediting extent. You’re a victim of a misinformation war in that situation, and as a friend I want to protect you from grievous and embarrassing public errors.

    As I recall, you were suspending judgement (the last time I managed to elicit a statement from you about this) on the Russia thing pending the release of the Mueller report. Since then, you have been entirely silent on the issue. Did the unequivocal conclusion that Russia hacked your election and that Trump encouraged it because it benefited him personally (and then obstructed the subsequent investigation) have anything to do with your silence on this issue? How do you expect to be taken seriously if you refuse to make any anti-partisan comment prior to the release of an authoritative report that you subsequently decline to refer to at all? Partisanship starts to look like the most obvious motivation.

    And sure, I’m biased. Trump – who has always been an obvious and egregious dummy and arsehole – abandoned the Kurds (some of whom, you may recall, are personal friends of mine) on a fickle whim after a phone call with Turkey’s Islamist dictator, who presumably knew how to successfully stroke his ego. Because by this point it’s super obvious to all the anti-democratic thugs of the world that YOUR PRESIDENT has no commitment to what we might call Western Values, and that while he cannot be reasoned with he CAN be manipulated. What a proud day for Republican America. Frankly, I feel ashamed on your behalf.

    I did not disagree with any of your comments about China, expect for your hilarious implication that Trump will willingly engage them on any grounds except for the most nakedly self-dealing. The Trump family has had multiple trademarks approved in China with almost zero bureaucratic hurdles (gosh I wonder why) since Donald incompetently stumbled into the presidency. Do you honestly think that family of vultures care more about human rights than about their international profit margins? Please don’t embarrass both of us.

    “Apparently I didn’t win any points by making sure to put blame on Republicans, either. Partisans don’t notice attempts at balance.”

    Lol, well done for taking historical Republican presidents to task. Modern partisanship tends to be contemporary, and the president who you currently decline to criticise for anything (except in a single ostentatious blog about the late John McCain) is – according to multiple constitutional scholars – guilty of impeachable offences. But that’s fine, right? Because at least he’s not Obama.

    Obama was totes evil tho.

    “Constitutional” libertarian? Just asking 🙂 [ironic smiley face]

    Whether or not you ever agreed with Romney, he might be right about this.

    EB,

    “Personally, I believe whatever Trump does will indeed ultimately be insufficient. Not for lack of effort on his part,….”

    🙂 Yeah, because he’s been such a strong, decisive president up to now [according to his own press statements]. Jesus, how much do you sad right-wing fanboys feel that you have to **** the **** of a faithless arrogant stupid lazy fat old pathological narcissist liar just because he’s the tragic last hope of the white Republican party? I’m more sad for you than anything else. Get some better life goals, please.

    “Says the naive partisan sap who thinks the current president….[cut a lot of inaccurate Fox News talking points/Russia disinformation]”

    ….

    “Trump has signed support for human rights and the protesters.”

    The House has been consistent on human rights in China, passing a bill condemning their crackdown on the Uighurs with only one vote against (a Republican).

    As for Trump – let’s just assume for the moment that he has the intellect to retain a consistent foreign policy outside of the moment in which he is asked a question – he has stated that “Hong Kong is a part of China”, and that “they’ll have to deal with that themselves”. SO PRINCIPLED! Like Putin, Trump is not a big fan of grassroots democratic protests against the ruling elites (I wonder why). Or indeed of democratic checks and balances, such as those that you attack as part of your ignorant paranoid anti-MSM campaign. If you seriously expect anything outside of self-interested bluster from Trump on the China issue then you are a very special species of sheltered political virgin so refined that I almost want to preserve you in a glass box.

    Just in case you have any remaining non-partisan political consciousness, I would sincerely refer you back to the Mueller report. No institution comes out that report better than the mainstream media – they got a huge amount of stuff right, and when they got things wrong, they admitted and corrected it (unlike the current White House, which doubles down on their bu!!$hit). Your reflexive dismissal of the mainstream media is symptomatic of a desperate partisan desire to belong in a community of reality-deniers. That goes for you too Tony. Sorry

    • Anthony on December 6, 2019 at 10:11 pm
      Author

    Your comment went right to spam, DH. Guess my spam filter is much higher quality than I expected. 😉

    Sorry, Dan, but I view your assessments as warped and dangerously delusional, even toxic, and I am not interested in imputing credibility to them by dignifying patently false comments and merely partisan rhetoric with a response. I’m sure that they play well in your circles, but on this blog, I’m not going to tolerate conspiracy-mongering radical extremist leftism. Not anymore.

    I found only one point that I thought passably reasonable. So, only because of our friendship, I will respond to it.

    “– abandoned the Kurds (some of whom, you may recall, are personal friends of mine) on a fickle whim after a phone call with Turkey’s Islamist dictator,”

    I mean, its just a hint of something reasonable, so I’m really straining here. I hope you appreciate how hard I’m working to find something that isn’t merely a partisan jab…. the only part passable is the ‘abandoned the Kurds’ thing, not the part about the ‘fickle whim’ and phone call, but which I will speak to briefly anyway.

    The so-called ‘abandonment of the Kurds’ is a gross overstatement of what was involved. There were just about 50 American troops on the ground. This is not by any stretch of the imagination any kind of force protecting and preserving the Kurds. Moreover, they weren’t just any Kurds, were they? They were a small subset of the Kurds who happened to have an ideology not much better than anyone else in the region, but had seen an opportunity to carve out for themselves an independent state in the midst of the chaos. In other words, they were using the United States. And honestly, it is bad enough when our troops are at risk in foreign countries, but at least ostensibly they’d be dying for OUR country. I object to our troops being asked to die for THEIR ‘country.’

    Lest you think you’re the only one with personal involvement, bear in mind that I have family in the special forces. Not in that theater, mind you, but potentially.

    Which leads me to say that hey, if you’ve got Kurdish friends, perhaps even some of those anarcho-communists that were exploiting the American presence, let me remind you that that region is far closer and applicable to the UK’s interests than America’s. Call up YOUR government. Surely THEY can spare a mere 50 troops to put themselves in between hostile parties such as Turkey, Russia, and Syria.

    Any number of countries could have been involved in this–on your view, apparently, an entirely noble venture–by deploying their own troops. France, Germany, or the EU as a whole.

    Give me a break.

    I do wish we could have withdrawn in such a way to honor the fact that these people did help us with ISIS; of course, Obama did arm ISIS and involve us where we should never have been involved at all. I don’t have any problem withdrawing from the region. I should like to withdraw even more. Loyalty matters to me, which means a courtesy to our erstwhile allies would have been appropriate. But the bottom line is you all need to work this out yourselves, and eventually you’ll have to. It isn’t moral to continue to rely on the US to fight your wars for you.

    Now about the ‘phone call.’ This statement suggests exactly the sort of willful ignorance based on your hyper-partisan acceptance of whatever the liberal media tells you. For, if you had decided to inform yourself… I mean, really inform yourself… you would know that Turkey’s intentions had been known for quite a long time. This operation was in the works long before the ‘phone call.’ In other words, Turkey was coming — 50 American troops in the way, or not.

    That’s a fact.

    You can easily verify it, if truth matters.

    In the context of that fact, my suspicion is that the ‘phone call’ actually contained Turkey’s assertion that the moment had arrived. They were going to wait no longer.

    Although, as I said, an exit that respected our ‘allies’ more would have been something I would have welcomed, I would have been extremely annoyed to learn that we had chosen to fight for a cause having nothing to do with our national interests. Like, zero. And if my relative(s) had been called up to fight, and then died FOR THAT, I’d have been pissed beyond measure.

    You’ve got a country, don’t you? Ring up your liberal politicians and tell them to put their own special ops troops in harms way.

    That’s all you’re getting from me.

    • Anthony on December 6, 2019 at 10:40 pm
      Author

    Dang it, I have to respond to something else.

    “As I recall, you were suspending judgement (the last time I managed to elicit a statement from you about this) on the Russia thing pending the release of the Mueller report. Since then, you have been entirely silent on the issue. ”

    You keep bringing this up. Yes, I did ‘suspend judgement.’ My assessment was that it was all a bunch of bullshit, but “I didn’t know what I didn’t know.” The Mueller report didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know about anything worthy of such a report in the first place. For example, the indictment of the Russian hackers (accused, but not actually tried in a court of law) was released long before the Mueller Report was released. I actually read the indictment. Did you? Were you even aware of it? I mean, before the report?

    So, when the Mueller Report discoursed on it, since I was already fully apprised of it, there was nothing else to add.

    You say, “Did the unequivocal conclusion that Russia hacked your election […] have anything to do with your silence on this issue? ”

    This is partisan bullshit. Pure bullshit. No one gives a shit about whether or not Russia ‘hacked the election’ (the ‘unequivocal’ part is itself bullshit; it was indeed their conclusion, but it was asserted, not demonstrated. We still have not seen the underlying evidence proving the assertion). The only thing that ever mattered is the part about whether or not there was ‘collusion.’ It is only if Trump was somehow complicit in crimes that we would care, and we knew that was bullshit before the Mueller Report but “I didn’t know what I didn’t know.” The Mueller Report made it plain that there was no evidence whatsoever that he was complicit in crimes, so I guess there wasn’t anything else left to know.

    Everyone knows that everyone is ‘hacking’ everyone’s election. Grow up.

    Now, listen to me closely Dan. I will not tolerate continued spewing of bullshit here. This is my blog. If you continue to spew this bullshit, you’re going to get banned. I no longer tolerate it. Any insinuation whatsoever that Trump colluded with the Russians is nothing more than partisan bullshit, and will not be tolerated.

    You’ve been warned.

    • Anthony on December 6, 2019 at 11:38 pm
      Author

    PS, I actually already addressed the ‘Russian interference’ on this blog, way back in June. So, not ‘silent.’

    • End Bringer on December 7, 2019 at 7:55 pm

    “I’m more sad for you than anything else. Get some better life goals, please.”

    I’ll be honest. Before Trump took office, my expectations of what he could accomplish was rather low. I really thought just filling the then-vacant Scalia seat would be the be-all end-all of his Presidency, simply because Establishment GOP would ban together with Establishment Democrats.

    But thankfully if Trump has achieved one long lasting Legacy maker, it’s that his Presidency has exposed the lie of the whole Liberal mantra about “tolerance, love, acceptance, etc.” that they claimed to be about for so many decades, and have revealed themselves to be petty, ignorant, hateful, rage-driven partisans that they always were, and as you seem to be determined to demonstrate, DB.

    “Or indeed of democratic checks and balances, such as those that you attack as part of your ignorant paranoid anti-MSM campaign.”

    Interestingly, I’m not the one to throw a fit about the idea of holding checks and balances to a painfully biased and partisan MSM, you claim not to depend on for your entire world-view (though it’s doubtful anyone believes this). Especially when if the MSM was such fair-minded seekers of truth (over 90 percent negative coverage for three years in a row, puts the lie to that idea), you wouldn’t have anything to fear in your rants about more checks being placed on THEM.

    But you do, so that suggests there is.

    SJ has already taken you to task about the Mueller Report. I think neither he, nor I, are terribly impressed with your defense of their behavior. The MSM is often called the ‘Drive-By Media’ precisely because for their propensity to shout and scream what fits their narrative in the beginning (Trump’s a Russian Spy! He paid hookers to pee on a bed! That Covington Kid is a racist who insulted a Native American!), only to quietly correct themselves later after the initial outburst is absorbed and people’s attention has moved on, if only to cover their asses and persuade dupes like you.

    Why get it right the first time, when it fits an agenda, huh?

    • End Bringer on December 7, 2019 at 8:15 pm

    P.S. Oh, in case you didn’t notice DB, it’s NOT a picture of Nancy Pelosi we see protesters holding up in symbolism.

    Though you’ll undoubtably make as much of a fuss about their “accuracy” as other talking heads. Humor is the first thing to go on for raging liberalism.

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